Torsten Neumann Powers Oldenburg’s Radical Edge

MATT: Eric, welcome back to a new episode of Publisher’s Verdict and today, we are delighted to have another great guest on the show. Torsten, welcome. Obviously, director of the Oldenburg Film Festival. A one-of-a-kind festival with a unique voice within today’s global film landscape. So, we’re excited to talk about that. But Eric, we’ll also be talking about other things, right?

ERIC: Did you just use the word unique? Because, Torsten, I don’t want to start off this podcast insulting a guest, especially you–

TORSTEN: But unique is friendly, isn’t it?

ERIC: Yeah, it’s really friendly. But I want to put this conversation on festivals and you immediately into a unique place. There’s like, 3000 festivals. Actually, some data said there’s 13000 festivals. So, coming up and using the word unique… You, Mr. Neumann, have to really defend this word. Seriously, let’s defend the word unique about Oldenburg. Because, come on, 3000 festivals in the world and you’re unique?

TORSTEN: Yeah, it’s very strange. I still can’t believe it, I have to admit. But maybe, the number of festivals is already showing that a lot of festivals exist for other reasons than just the love of film, of cinema, and the art. And there are many festivals that are more like city marketing and whatever. And they probably all have their reasons. But it’s not necessarily to be expected that these kinds of festivals try to create something unique. They just bring something that is not unique into their community.

And for some reason, we started Oldenburg with a huge passion for independent cinema. And somehow, I was not able to develop on it. It’s still the same. And, of course, after 30 years, it created something that I now also see around me, around the globe, that does not exist so often anymore. People are trying to bet on the safe things and program films from the circuit and A festivals that are dealing with nothing other than quality, which is always, of course, very objective. But still, no topic involved. No agenda to follow. That has become very rare. And so, I think we deserve the term unique.

ERIC: Well, I’ve actually heard a young filmmaker who you invited about two years ago. I believe he wrote something and he said, ‘Oldenburg ruined the festival experience for me when I attend other festivals.’ You hosted him as a first-time filmmaker. His first international film festival. And he basically wrote this long article describing your festival and how you treated a young new filmmaker with the same love, affection, and professionalism as you did the ones with greater experience.

TORSTEN: Of course, it’s always lovely to hear something like this. And I collect feedback, of course. And I know that we are creating a very special vibe that brings all the filmmakers who are attending to appreciate the way they are hosted here, I would say.

ERIC: I did a podcast before and I think you took–not some issues–but you made some comments about some of my thoughts. In general, do you feel that the major film festivals are still valid? Or, let me go back and ask you another question. Why is there a film festival? Why does Cannes, Berlin, really exist? I mean, okay, Berlin in 1951, we know why it exists, right? The U.S. military said they really wanted an international film festival. But really, in 1951, it was a great propaganda tool for Hollywood to enter Europe. Okay, boom, that was really a clear mission.

But today, how relevant is it for filmmakers? For example, the young filmmakers who went to Oldenburg. I doubt very much they can go to Cannes and say the same thing. They can probably go to Cannes and sleep on the beach. Because they’d never even get a ticket to go and see a film! So, are they still relevant for filmmakers?

TORSTEN: Yeah, that’s the problem with A festivals and it has always been the same, I think. And it’s still the same. It’s like a little closed circuit that is fed only by certain industry parts, like sales reps, who have good relationships. And from this group of films, they find better or worse programming. And I’m just back to Cannes. And I would always say that this is also a unique festival because it stands out from the rest of the bigger festivals. Because it feals, at least, like they still honour the art of cinema rather than following certain ideas, topics, expectations–and it’s the worst things when festivals follow expectations.

So, in that way, that has always been the same. And these independent filmmakers that could make the best film, better than all the other stuff–when they don’t have these connections, they will not be invited. Maybe it needs a certain system and it needs to put more trust in these companies that bring films to Cannes. They pick films up or not.

TORSTEN: But these days, it feels like this system is crumbling a bit because the world is maybe losing the quality of movies out of their minds. Films have to make a statement for our times, our politics, or whatever. And that’s just not the case and should never be the case. And there can be brilliant films that deal with political topics and bad films. And it sometimes feels like the political topic is more important than the quality. And that makes the system suffer, of course.

ERIC: That’s really interesting. We’ve had a guest on about two weeks ago, Chris Fenton. I know we recorded Chris; I don’t know when we’re publishing [the episode] but he actually mentioned the same thing. And it’s an interesting topic to touch on because you started it first. The politicization of events in films. Whether one is on the far left or the far right or the center, it seems that the attention of a lot of the film festivals, or certainly the awards. And we saw this, I think–there’s controversy over Bruce Springsteen’s concert. There was controversy over what’s happening. And I’m divided. Is there a place for that? Should it happen at film festivals? Should they politicize the awards? The Oscars is the most famous, right? But how do you feel?

TORSTEN: I would say, no. But I am very lonely in this opinion. I know that because, of course, we are a place, a cultural space. A film festival should be a film festival. I would not even include TV series in a film festival but it’s very popular [to do so]. It’s a different area of the industry and it is further away from a creation that we could call art very clearly. And so, I would say, yes, there can be a festival for TV series. But a film festival should not jump on that because it’s actually countering the art of cinema. So, I would even be very purist and say, if we do a film festival, we should deal with the quality of a film, whatever story it tells. That should always be number one.

ERIC: How do you keep that out of Oldenburg? Because in one way, I want to say, it’s a young film festival even thought you have a long tradition and you’ve been around. But it’s still, I think–its spirit is young. It’s not a risk but you’re taking a risk sometimes by inviting young or new filmmakers. You’re experimenting, you’re pushing the envelope often. And so, at some times, it feels radical, right?

TORSTEN: I like this idea because art must be radical. You know, we have to challenge certain limitations, always. And that is something that falls out of the idea. And the big A festivals are marketplaces. They have a bit of a different approach. But if we look at the Berlinale, with all respect, I’m sorry but that’s a political agenda festival with all their ideas and everything they want to promote before promoting good films. I see them being in the canon of what is good and what is bad in the world.

ERIC: So, a sensitive question. You can answer it as you wish. You mentioned Berlin. And maybe some eyebrows were raised when they put in the new direction, who’s well-qualified, no doubt, very well-qualified. But not German.

TORSTEN: That’s the point. There are many people here in Germany who would also think the main German film festival should be run by a German. And like Venice is doing it for Italian films and Cannes is doing it for French films, it should also look and find a way to support German films or, let’s say, ambitious German films and give them a place to be seen by the world. That would be Berlin, yeah.

ERIC: In your opinion, why was she selected to run the Berlin Film Festival?

TORSTEN: Yeah, that’s a good question. And she has her skills and her qualities. She brings this and her connections and everything. But there’s always a look on the agenda of these days. You know, on April 1st, we put out a press release saying Oldenburg will give out an award for an old white male filmmaker, the Silverback Award, just to put out the provocation that there’s possible anymore other than gender, female... So, these topics have a weight that is almost counterproductive, I think.

ERIC: I think, as we say, the pendulum is moving and eventually it comes back to the center. I mean, you never shy away from criticism, which is good, including your advertising, promoting the festival. I want to thank you, Torsten, for advertising in The Film Verdict.

TORSTEN: Thank you for having a space for us.

ERIC: But your ads were–I love it, but sometimes, I had to be careful where we placed them. There was a very religious film that we reviewed, or a film that’s somewhat, let’s say, religious. And I had to choose the best banned ad to go next to that one because some people could be easily offended.

TORSTEN: Exactly.

ERIC: So, I did choose the cat. And maybe, Matt, when we publish this, we can also publish one of the most radical banner ads. I think that’s the one with the arm with the vein coming out. It’s very powerful, very powerful. Did you have any negative feedback? Did anybody complain?

TORSTEN: No, I actually got a lot of enthusiastic feedback, to be honest. And, of course, we need a little hook to get the people to see it. And the shock motive is always the easiest way. But here, we wanted to play with the [idea of] addiction and the passion for Oldenburg, for film. And then, of course, the arm with the veins…it’s very powerful. I got a lot of good feedback but everyone also says, “oi-oi-oi” and then realize what it is.

ERIC: So, I have another question. And I’m going to stay on Oldenburg because it’s pertinent to our conversation. In one of my conversations with Matt, I discussed Cannes a little bit. I said, I just think they had to rein in the carpet, the red carpet. It’s so commercialized.

TORSTEN: It is.

ERIC: It looks like a fashion runway. The news outlets cover it intensely but they don’t cover the films. They cover the clothes, the merchandise. The person who’s not even in the film gets more coverage than the director who’s walking up on the red carpet. And I said, if there was a verdict on that, I think it was to rein in the red carpet. It’s just too much. This is my opinion.

And funny enough, a few days later, they announced no nudity on the red carpet. Now, that’s the one thing they should allow! It’s all the big dresses and all the big weird clothes that everyone is wearing that, as I was saying, is ridiculous. Nudity is fine. So, I’m going to ask you, Torsten: will you implement a nude red carpet? Will you send out a press release that nudity is okay on the Oldenburg red carpet?

TORSTEN: Yeah, I would say yes. I guess yes but because I’m also secretly thinking about how we could take away a little attention from Cannes.

ERIC: I’m semi-joking but I do think that these festivals, the larger festivals that we have–Cannes in particular, which is, you know, easy to talk about. I don’t know where the point of return is, where the attention on the film is getting more and more difficult. I mean, look it, all of the festivals are very respectful to The Film Verdict and to our critics. That I have to say. They’re always amazingly helpful. But for many, I think it’s difficult. Venice is a hard time. Critics and journalists have a hard time actually doing their work there. So, the attention on the film itself is, I think, sometimes getting lost.

And film festivals like Oldenburg, and I’m going to mention another one which I really love, the Sarajevo Film Festival. Festivals like these are going to grow in importance. Not even just with young, newer filmmakers but I think, you’re going to find experienced filmmakers with a depth of knowledge. They will start to go to smaller film festivals, including buyers, acquisition executives…

TORSTEN: You know, Eric, it was interesting. Of course, I’m always seriously a fan of Cannes because I think it stands above others with Thierry Fremaux’s way of being a real cineaste. And I watched the award ceremony online. I was back home and I was very impressed with how they have no show around it. It’s just the films. Serious announcements and serious cineastes talking about the films. So that, I think, is amazing.

But with the market–I go to the market in Cannes also to find new films that are not in the official program. And the last years, I think, it’s been a problem since the pandemic and we haven’t gone back to normal. The streaming now exists in a different way. And the market, the need for the market, to go and see films, doesn’t really exist anymore. So, the quality of the market has been going far down. And the films that they’re playing at the market… I don’t know.

And I understand, also, the sales companies. They think, why would I book a market screening that is so expensive? And then, there was 20 film tourists walking through it. But the real buyers are not there. While I have my clients, I can just send them the screener. I know they watch it on a bigger screen in good quality. No more need for it. So, that is something that is going into big trouble.

But then again, you are there, people are there. It’s about meeting people. And that is, of course, the most important point for film festivals or even marketplaces is bringing people together and having one say, ‘did you see this film?’ And it’s just the energy of humans that is so important. And that still exists, of course. But I think the market is a complication. And of course, it also brings a few more thousand of people to Cannes and more attention, you know.

ERIC: But I was one of the first guys with Variety magazine, running Variety International, and we did the Cannes dailies, the daily magazines. Physical magazines. And it was the days before the internet and the digitalization of things, believe it or not.

TORSTEN: Well, I was around then too.

ERIC: And there was always a vibe. There was a buzz, you know. The distribution. We would have to get out by 6.30, 7 o’clock in the morning. You could see people grabbing the magazines, running to the screening room or the buyers. There was always a vibe. I would always get yelled at by filmmakers, mostly German. Always angry with me about the review, which I had nothing to do with. It was just amazing. It was always this energy. And there were always one or two films that just really pushed out. So, in many ways, it’s very sad. I think the internet, like everything else seems to be in these days, can be absolutely a phenomenal tool and also just negative.

One of the questions Matt and I have debated offline, and maybe we should go online about it, is the marketing of films. You know, pre-sales marketing used to be massive and today it’s not. I remember the 14 airplanes that would fly banners across the beach of the films that were being sold by, I think, Canon at the time. Now, you have one carton stand-up of a person or something as the one and only marketing tool, and you do ten pre-sales. So, I think that’s been lost.

And I think when we lose advertising, you start to lose a lot. You actually start to lose the value of the film because if you don’t want to put money in your film to make it successful, to pre-sell it, then the buyers start to say, ‘they don’t want to put money into it.’ But that’s maybe a whole different conversation.

ERIC: Torsten, before we wrap up, tell me a little bit about what you're thinking for 2025, the next edition of your film festival. Tell me, Torsten, what's the plan?

TORSTEN: In fact, we have the first films we have invited. And it's mainly the Cannes market. Whether it's a good one or a bad one, it sets the starting point of the content for us. So, we are in a very early stage and I'm quite excited to see how we are growing every year in reputation and awareness. And I now already we have two, three really amazing films on board that will have their world premiere with us.

ERIC: Are you allowed to say what films they are?

TORSTEN: There's a Spanish film we invited, and two Irish films that are very exciting and– 

MATT: Exciting Irish films. That's a first.

TORSTEN: You know, the thing is, it’s somehow funny when you run a small festival. Three years ago, we had an Irish film called The Black Gwelf. John Connors was the director. He was also a very liked, successful actor. And it won Best Film in Oldenburg and the actor won the Best Actor award. And that somehow caused a lot of Irish films realizing, ‘oh, that’s maybe a good place.’ So, maybe something is happening there, you know? That’s something we realize more than a bigger festival would.

But there is, in fact, something happening. And I met a few people in Cannes also. And this is interesting. Again, there was a film three years ago that was not supported by Screen Ireland. It was an indie from Ireland. And through the success and awareness from Oldenburg, now they are seen differently. So, there’s our little impact. And it’s nice when something comes out of it.

ERIC: I think you’re the first love of many filmmakers. And when you have your first love, you never forget it. Your first kiss, you never forget. Actually, I forgot my first kiss. But your first love, you never forget. And I think that’s Oldenburg in many ways. Personally, online, offline, I always love talking with you and getting your ideas. And first, I want to say thank you very much for going public with us. Your English is phenomenal. My German is as good as my Dutch. Sometimes they’re both confused.  But coming on a podcast, giving your opinions and talking a little bit about your film festival, I greatly appreciate it. And I hope you can rejoin us in the future and talk about certain specific issues that affect filmmakers and affect you.

You know, one thing we didn’t speak about but I think it’s important–many of the film festivals in particular around Europe are financed with the help of the city’s local government, the federal governments and so forth. And unfortunately, sometimes, we’re at the mercy of that funding. But yet, you are a catalyst. These festivals. But let’s talk about Oldenburg. [The festival] is a catalyst for economic development. I mean, everyone in the world who listens is going to say, ‘Where the fuck is Oldenburg? What are they talking about?’ I mean, Matt, we may have to put a map on it or something.

But when they go to the film festival, there’s a ripple effect, right? So, who you invite, they maybe bring their families. Maybe they come back, they talk to others, there’s trade that covers it. And so, there’s massive economic development. And I’d like to talk to you on another podcast, perhaps, with one of your finance ministers, [to see] if they truly understand the value of a film festival.

So with that, I wish you best of luck for 2025. As we say, break a leg, merde… And I can’t wait to see what films and young talent you bring out. My verdict is really simple. Long live these film festivals that give art its priority. That’s the number one reason that we have a fiolm festival. Art, culture, dialogue, and communication. It brings peace to the world, brings economic developmet, and it starts filmmakers off on a path to the unknown. Thanks, Torsten. God bless.

TORSTEN: Thank you so much.