Does AI Own the Future of Film?

MATT: Today happens to be a very sunny day and what a day to talk about one of the hottest topics in the entertainment industry: artificial intelligence. And obviously, there's so many different directions we can go with this topic. And I'm just going to pick the easy way to go about it and ask a very simple question in literally the simplest terms: artificial intelligence in film and the entertainment industry at large. Good, bad, what's the deal?

ERIC: Let me get Adam to kind of jump in and give some real life experience because he deals with this every day. And I'd love to figure out how you deal with that every day and really what comes up and sort of like the ramifications for your business. And then we could dive into some other things. So, how's it come up with you, Adam? And what do you do with it?

ADAM: Well, first, just honored to be your first guest. So excited to jump into this. I think a lot of these are my personal opinions. I work for a small animation studio, Baobab Studios. There's differing opinions in the company, in the industry. And I don't think there's a simple answer of is it good or is it bad? I also think it depends on if you look at AI as a tool or as a replacement for human interaction. 

Personally, I think there are definitely values to using it as a tool. And what that means is that you still need the person, an artist, a writer that is really managing the AI to either... If it's an artist, it's polishing their work. It's speeding up the creative pieces of it. It may just be doing VX or anything that's just supporting the creative piece of it, but not replacing the person. 

We work specifically on animation and there are definitely areas where it does improve, especially for a small studio where an average cost of an animated film can be anywhere from $20 million to $200 million for a Hollywood blockbuster. And it really impedes small studios from being able to produce. And it also takes today up to five years to produce an animated film or an animated series, even. 

And so the benefits of AI are definitely driving down the costs of that where they say anywhere from like for a blockbuster 20% where it'll drive down the cost. Some of these short animated AI films are running about $500,000, which is a significant drop. And you can reduce the time from like five years down to maybe like one to two years. And that's not with replacing the people, but that's with just adding the tools to speed up the process.

ADAM: At the same time, I do get concerns that there are ways to misuse or kind of overuse AI. And I'm not a lawyer and I'm not going to pretend to be one, but there's obviously implications of the IP and the implications of that, where if you're creating a character, who owns that character? Because you don't know where AI is pulling those assets from. 

ERIC: Do you deal with that a lot? Because that's really actually incredibly interesting. So has that come up yet where AI has created something entirely? And then, who owns the actual right of the project or the image?

ADAM: It does happen in the industry. It hasn't happened with us because we don't use it yet for anything like that. But that is definitely a big talking point in the industry. I mean, there's an ability where you can just say... tell whatever the AI tool to create a dog that has big ears and whatever. And it creates this character. You don't know where it's pulling that art or that art, where it's coming from. It could be coming from Clifford the Big Red Dog. It could be coming from just a generic animal. 

And even attorneys today are grappling with where that IP actually [comes from] and who owns that intellectual property. So those are the things that we do try to avoid where it's more about creating a character and then enhancing it with AI where you already have a character, say it's a dog again, and you want it to have sad eyes and you can tell AI to make the eyes look sad. Something like that, where it's more of a polish versus the actual creation of a character.

ERIC: All right. So, that's cool for your business, right? So you've taken, let me say, an artistic, moral high ground of saying: we're going to use this as a tool, the same way a paintbrush is a tool or a computer is a tool. And you're able to save 20%, bring down your production to one year, two years. So it is a really significant tool. 

I mean, is there an accountant in it? I'm not talking about your company, of course, any company, but is there an accountant who says: ‘hold on a second, wait, we're just one step away. We're still paying this mega salary to this artist for this concept. We're one step away.’ Is there anything holding that back yet? Or is it just the business morality of it or the ethics?

ADAM: I think truly creative studios and organizations still believe that AI is not going to create the vision of the artist. It's still pulling from an existing library of content or IP. It's not thinking itself of what's it’s going to look like. And I actually had the opportunity to play around with some of these tools for creating animation with AI. And well, first, within 30 minutes, you can create a five-minute animated video or a little film, which is pretty incredible. However, it's still very limited.  When I was trying to ask it to create some sort of an animal that did a certain thing, it took about ten iterations of trying to get it close to what I wanted it to do. And it still didn't really look like a natural action, the way it was working.

So I still don't believe that AI is at the point where you're going to replace an artist and what they want to create. At some point, I think it will get there. From what I've seen two, three years ago to what it is today, it's about a thousand times better. But I still don't think it's quite there. And I think we will get to that sort of crossing point where studios are going to have to decide, do I need an artist or can I just use AI? I just don't think we're there today.

ERIC: You're referring to the visuals, right? And I get that, but I'm sort of struggling. Actually, I'm struggling a lot with technology. Usually, I embrace technology because, by and large, it's controllable. And for me, AI is not controllable. The fact that it's a learning machine. And so you really can't control, at least I don't think you can control what it actually does.

And just ironically, the other night I was listening to an interview with Bill Gates and some of the things he said… and it comes down to, wow, this is really fantastic. Everybody can use it and it really can be applied across the board in science and medicine. But yet, the conversation always goes to ethics. Are we comfortable with it? Or should everybody, should every business actually have it?

And I think it seems frivolous in the film industry, right? Or the entertainment industry. I think it sounds so frivolous because it's so simple. It's only film. So, who cares if it's AI, right? But that's like Michelangelo using it for the Sistine Chapel. It's only an artist. So I don't know where you draw the line. And I think, for example, we go to script writing and I know that there are a lot of writers [who] are originating their stories using AI. Question mark. I mean, I am totally flabbergasted on accepting that or not accept. I am just literally divided right down the middle on this.

ERIC: But let's go back on the script writing. I mean, if someone came to you and you said, wow, this is a phenomenal, phenomenal script for our company, we'd love to do that. And then you find out that this is AI-written, what would Adam do? Again, not your company. What would Adam's feeling be on this one?

ADAM: Yeah, that one’s definitely more challenging. I think it also goes back to where that AI is pulling that script from. So if I was an attorney, I would be extremely concerned because finding the chain of title to that content gets very challenging.  And you're also relying on some honesty from the script writer. A lot of the time, I think they will write a script and then they'll have AI polish it. There's still some chances there that they're pulling from an existing IP. 

But that one is definitely a more challenging issue from both the legal standpoint and I think from the ethical standpoint of, are you replacing a writer or someone who's coming in and doing revisions or polishes on a script? And again, I still don't think that AI is quite at the point where it feels like it's a creative human mind coming up with something. There's still something very systematic and I think computer-generated. You can tell when something is written through AI versus the human brain. But in short, I would say I do not support AI as replacing a script writer.

ERIC: Yeah, I sort of agree too. And talk about something timely. Our new Pope Leo XIV, literally his first major speech to the Cardinals identified AI as a key challenge for humanity, posing threats to human dignity, justice, and labor. I mean, he's spot on. You, Adam, Pope Adam used the word challenge a lot of times in the last three minutes. And I think it is a challenge for humanity. And in many ways, I think Pope Leo got it right. It's about dignity, justice, and labor. I think it's really interesting that it’s creeping up into the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, let alone the hierarchy of Paramount or Universal.

I mean, these are real questions and real, I think, concerns that people have. It seems to be, hey, my thought is not an original thought, right? What I'm about to say. So it's like artificial intelligence as well. I stole it from someone else. I mean, should everybody have access to AI is a question. And the paradigm was, should everyone have access to a nuclear bomb? I mean, should everyone have the right to use uranium to make a nuclear bomb? And I don't want to credit this to Bill Gates, but I think it was Bill Gates and one of the founders of AI who actually used this comparison. And the answer that they came up with was absolutely no, not everyone should have access to it.

But again, I think that for the film industry, as we move down this road, there's going to be a generation of executives and scriptwriters who artificial intelligence is just part of their life, the same way, Adam and Matt, we use a keyboard and spell check.

MATT: Certainly, there's a lot to talk about when it comes to AI in all aspects of our lives. And of course, we focused on the film aspect of our lives. But what we do, Adam, is at the end of our episode, our conversation about specific topics, we deliver a brief and concise verdict on this topic. And let me just return to my original question. AI, good or bad? What's the verdict? 

ADAM: I'm going to stick with it's good and bad. I 100% agree with Eric that it could be very dangerous if there's no boundaries and regulations and controls put around it. At the same time, I think there are some good points that come out of it around making it a more even playing ground for smaller creators and studios, as long as that's used in the right way, as a tool, not as a replacement.

ERIC: Yeah, I think you brought up a keyword, and I think it's regulations. And there's been a lot of pushback on regulation from everyone. I mean, everywhere. I mean, your verdict is absolutely correct. And we all understand, like, for example, medicine and science, it's just, it's unbelievable what this can do. But it seems to stop there. And then I think everyone starts to get worried after that.

You know, my verdict: artificial ignorance. I think we're in the age of artificial ignorance at the moment. There are such key players who really understand the reality of what AI can do. And Elon Musk is one of them, right? He was just in Saudi Arabia, and he's pushing all of his businesses that include AI. And at the same time, he recognizes how dangerous it actually is. 

And a parentheses note, by the way, I don't know if you saw Elon Musk give a speech, and he was talking about his Boring business, making tunnels, and he was recommending that Saudi Arabia use this business because they're buying everything from Elon Musk anyway. I mean, they're buying his memo cards, they buy everything, everything that he has there. And he was trying to push now his Boring Company, which is this company which makes tunnels for transportation. And he was saying that it's never been done before. I just thought to myself, hold on a second. Subways! But anyway, that's what I just thought to myself, artificial intelligence and artificial ignorance. It's called subways, Elon.

My verdict actually is, let's keep it simple. Let's make sure that humans still have the creative control because that's the challenge. That's what art is. Now, when we see a computer make artwork, it is not the same thing as when a human hand and a human mind create something that is original. And I think that's where we go. But that's my opinion. And as I said, I may be out of date, but I do believe one thing. I do disagree with you, Adam. I think that today, AI is already a threat. And tomorrow, we won't even be able to recognize what's the difference between AI and reality. And I think that's the concern. That's my verdict. AI is here to stay. Let's regulate it. And let's use it as a tool. Thanks, Adam. 

ADAM: You're welcome.